Discuss Carmen in the light of our discussion on Orietalism. What specific scene did you find most interesting? Give as many concrete, specific examples from the video that you can.
Discussing this in class helped. When schindler had talked about the toreador song and how toreador was not an actual word and they had made it up for the opera itself, i wonder if they do that a alot. When i first heard the toreador song i assumed it was an old spanish song that had been around for years. I also think that the pertrayel of the gypseys were accurate to most human beings assumption of what gypseys are. Although a good portion of gypseys probably arnt thiefs, its just the general nature of them.
I liked Carmen allot. This opera has been a very intersting piece to go along with orietalism. I like how Mr. Schindler described to us that bad girls have metzo voices, and good girls have soprano voices. This helped me alot when i was watching Carmen and i was looking for the different voice levels. my favorete scene was when carmen was telling the soldier not to leave her and he was saying he had to go back for role call. This was intesting because she was singing to him and trying to seriante him With her beautiful voice.
I never viewed Carmen as a "racist" opera, despite the negative connotation that Orientalism seems to have at times. Considering the time period of the opera I think that depicting the events in a far off culture is understandable, although not necessarily “right” per say. I don’t feel that the intention of setting Carmen in a foreign land was to degrade that land specifically but rather to simply remove the events of the opera from the culture it would be preformed for because the idea of such dealings in the European upper class was uncomfortable to think of for viewers. The scene that I found the most interesting was the scene in which all of the gypsies come out of the smoke shop that they work in. They were blatantly displayed as raunchy and improper lower class characters from their costumes and makeup to their body language to their songs. This scene displays the ideas of Orientalism in Carmen fully.
If the use of Orientalism had any negativity at all in the opera, I would say it was the use of the gypsies rather than the dancing that would have been offensive to "proper French people." I thought that the most interesting scene was that which had the three women reading the card. I thought how it was laid out, with the two in front singing to eachother and Carmen listening in, then joining in and reading her own bad omens to herself.
I have really liked Carmen, even though every time i see Carmen i think of my big fat Greek wedding. I believe that orietalism can be seen as racist but only if you try to make it into something negative. I think all operas and everything around us has things that will degrade something or someone and if there were not things like that we would all be living in plastic boxes all to ourselves. In the play that we watched, i really liked when the messenger came in and all the guys just stopped and watched her until there was the one bold guy eager to confront her. I thought that was funny because it actually showed a real thing that happens all the time. Even now when there is a cute person or something everyone will just stop and stare and there will always be one daring person. But I also wish i saw when Carmen got stabbed because that would have probably been the most grabbing part of the play, there was not much to keep you on your toes. There was also the sword fight over who stayed with Carmen which i liked. When the two army guys fought over her that was kind of exciting too.
I don't think I viewed Carmen any differently after our discussion about possible racist connotations. I think that if anything, the idea of the "other" and setting Carmen in an exotic location added to the depth of the opera. There were elements that I can see being caused by the ingnorance of the time period; the portrayal of gypsies, don jose, and the use of the made up word "toreador". But again I think this all has to do with the time period, and art such as this; and the Pearl Fishers should not be discounted because of these naive ideas.
I believe that the opera Carmen potrayed what we had talked about in class in regards to orientalism quite well because of the fact that the stage and the types of people - such as gypseys - differ from the French and France, and their views on how they look at themselves. The play was very sexual I thought, which the French wanted to express but keep hidden, and they did a great job in doing so in this opera. My favorite scene was when it was snowing. I just thought it was neat how they made it look as if it were snowing so well.
I loved Carmen so much. I recognized three fourths of the songs and the songs I didnt know, I felt like I knew the songs because they were so catchy and musically wonderful. I think that Orientalism was not all that prominent in Carmen but it was definately there. The gypseys were shown as lower human beings and that the white folk are enticed by them. In the scene where the gypseys come out to smoke and the men treat them like animals as just some one you can love and leave. It was a great opera and if I hear more operas like that then I may become an opera fanatic like Mr. Schlinder.
I really really liked Carmen, I thought it was a much more interesting and fast-paced opera than the other ones we'd seen, and a lot more understandable. In terms of Orientalism, I think you could definitely see the stereotypes in the portrayals of the gypsy characters and of the "passionate" Spanish men and the "Toreador" song brought out a lot of that as well. However I didn't think that it was a racist opera in any sense, as you can still see blatant stereotypes used in most movies that come out nowadays, and although they are sometimes offensive they are generally just used as easily recognisable, distinctive ways to allow the audience to understand the character.
One of my favourite scenes was one of the earliest in the opera, where all the cigarette girls come out from the factory and the men all queue up to ask Carmen who will be her next lover.
The opera Carmen has racist undertones but when i think about the poem "the White Man's Burden" Carmen don't even sound like it. The opera was way more like hidden of stereotypes. like of course they were there with that all gypsies dance a certain way, smoke, smuggle guns, and are basic hoes when it come down to it. French society could write about everyone else and try to make up that all countries besides them a nd a precious few other countries area all whats the word..premiscuous..is that it? but anyway, yeah i love how they think that they all whatchu call it..stuck up? no its called modest but anyway yeah, like aint they the biggest hoes goin round n round like no other? but anyways my faborite scene was when in the beginging when all the chick was out smokin n ..stuff..like that was hella tight cuz i dont know Don Jose was jus talkin about how they was no good and they weren't like the girls back home. i thought it was funny cuz i was thinkin how bad are they really n they all come out for a smoke break..the end.
Carmen was definately my favorite play/Opera so far. It reminds me a lot of the Opera Les Miserables (which is MY all-time favorite).
I found it interesting that when we were talking about how the french wrote the play, the play is spoken in french, but is set in spain. It really did shine on the fact that not only did the french have imagination, but also that they were a little hoity toity. How they would never degrade themselves to the low like qualities of the Gypsies, and they would never betray their country for smugglers, or dance showing their petty coats!In a way its a little ridiculous, concidering they were the first ones to come out with the CAN-CAN!!!! talk about showing/strutting your stuff!
My favorite scene was when Escamillio came in and sang his toreador song. Not only was that very recognizable but very fun as well. I love the Hanbanera song, but Toreador beats it.
I really liked Opera Carmen. I Think Opera Carmen was not boring as other Operas that we saw. The interesting of Opera Carmen was wrote in French but set in Spanish and put actual words. This Opera helped to understand how gypseys life was. My favorite scene was when Carmen sings Habanera. I really like that song and I knew that song before but I did not know that song was came from the Carmen. Also I really liked violin sounds in the Toreador song.
Carmen was probably my favorite opera. My favorite scene was when they have the dance and everyone dancing and Carmen is singing a solo. I like it because there is a lot of people on stage and their all dancing and it just looks good and sounds good as well. By talking about Carmen in class it helped me learn more about Orientalism and what the play was truly about. Also the quintet was very good and they were all in unison. I also like that we had heard all lot of the tunes and they were very catchy and fun.
While Carmen had some stereotypes in it, mainly concerning gypsies, I really don't see it as racist. As far as orientalism goes, maybe Bizet wanted to show what the stereotype of gypsies were at the time in France, either in criticism or praise for thier free life style. My favorite part of the video was probably during the quintet with Carmen and the smugglers, because I really appreciate how hard it must be to sing in perfect unison with four other people at that speed (and it was a pretty up beat song)
I thought Carmen was great. It definitely represented the orientalism by making gypseys bad characters in the opera. for example, many gypsesys like Caremen looked very seducing and bad. i thought that kind of idea in the opera represented orientalism the best. my favorite scene was the ending. i couldn't really understand why the soilder would kill his lover but i guess that is his way of expressing love for Carmen. I thought the ending was relly epic and loud. singing thoughtout the opera was really really good as well as the story line. I enjoyed it a lot
If Bizet had made the opera Carmen set in France at the time it would have offended the masses. The opera is of Orient style because of the sexual nature of the gypsies. Also, the way the setting is the French's perception of what Spain is like. I enjoyed the scene where the girls came out of the cigarette factory and started to walk around smoking around the men out on the streets in front of the factory. Then, they all turn to the top level on the stairs to see Carmen come down. Then they all start asking who she would take as her new lover and she sings a solo about her not choosing a new one until she feels the need to choose another. Until she sees Don Jose, who she then chooses to be her next lover. He resists for a little while but finally give in to her advances.
I don’t think that Carmen was a racist opera at all. Yes there was a pre-conceived view of gypsies that was used but to take is as far as racist is a little over the top. I think that when you watch an opera that was written in a different time period, you have to think the way they did then to fully appreciate the opera. Back then people had no idea what Spaniard or gypsies were like so they used the information they did have.
I really liked Carmen. One of the things that I liked most about it was that I recognized some of the songs from it, without knowing they were even part of an opera. You could see the orientalism in Carmen mainly in the stereotype of the gypsies and I don’t think the opera was racist pretty much at all, because almost every person in this time period and before has used stereotypes. I think my favorite scene in the opera was the “Toreador" song because it was one of the ones I recognized.
Aside from All The Kings Men, Carmen has now become my favorite performance. Now I understand you cant really put an opera and compare it to a straight play but I really found both very interesting and entertaining. Carmen, I believe, intriqued me because of the amazing set that was able to be changed. I was astonished at how different but yet complex the sets were for having many different lications. The music of Carmen was exceptional and I think that can be attributed to the cast, the language and the style. My favorite song was near the beginning and Carmen was singing about being careful if she were to give a man her love. The whole dynamic of the love triangle were compelling and exciting. Looking at the orientalist idea I do not understand why they thought it proper to ship the story off and have it be played as though it were in a foreign country. To me I feel that situations like this would have appeared all over the world. As for scenes I found most interesting well most all were however I thought (I believe it was act three) the act with the smugglers and the change of scene to the ocean and the stairs was not as interesting and the excitement had gone compared to all the other acts. I very much I liked that Opera.
Carmen is definitely my favorite opera we've seen so far. When it comes to Orientalism, I don't think that it should be viewed as a racist opera, but rather what the French thought of "the others" at that time. It should just be enjoyed for what it is, and people shouldn't think too deeply about Orientalsm while watching it or it'll just ruin the whole experience. But an example of Orientalism in Carmen, is how the gypsies are portrayed. They were all shown as thieves, who read the future in cards, and danced in a way that would've been inappropriate to the French at the time. The French used gypsies to portray this because the thought of a French person doing any of that would've been disasterous. The scene that most interested me was the first act. I was very impressed by the sets. There was so much detail that went into it with all the windows, doors, and brick work. It was amazing.
I thoroughly enjoyed watching Carmen. Unlike the other operas we’ve seen (like Elektra) the music was pleasant to listen to the entire way through. That I’ve learned some French and felt familiar with the language being sung also helped. I was genuinely entertained for most of the show. Two scenes that stuck especially in my mind were the Smugglers’ quintet and the climactic murder of Carmen. I loved the blended cascading harmony that the quintet created; each voice was separate and combined with others simultaneously. The harmony and vocal interplay in that scene was wonderful. I enjoyed the encounter between Don John and Carmen because of its artful use of all the motifs previously established in the opera. I loved hearing all the numerous distinct riffs that brought back images of previous parts in the show.
I didn’t find the opera to be racist at all. Even after learning that Carmen’s composer set the opera in Spain to avoid thinking about its lustful themes in a local context, I don’t feel the work was derogatory. The show was set in Spain to prevent it being in France, not because the French necessarily believed that all Spanish people had the traits exhibited by characters in the opera. Nowhere are Spanish or Gypsy folk generalized by their race, or made to seem inferior to other races. The purpose of the setting was only to avoid another setting.
The discussion we had in class about Orientalism and the idea behind it made me see parts of Carmen that I wouldn’t have noticed or would have seen differently otherwise. I never really thought about the how accurately the setting and people in plays were performed; I just accepted what I saw as truth. But after talking in class I saw the opera differently. I never would have questioned that the word Toreador wasn't a real word, I just assumed it was a bull fighters title but it makes me wonder how often plays and operas change events and make up words to fit the context or theme and portray a group or area differently.
I Really enjoyed Carmen! I liked how much of the music I already knew and from what I didn't know, it was very catchy and fun. After discussing Orintalism in class, I really noticed that gypsey's were portrayed as the outsider. Talking about racism and wondering if it were used in Carmen... I'd say yes. For example in the scene at the begining where all the gypsey's came out singing and the officers were keeping them together.
I really enjoyed watching Carmen in class. The music and the dancing was very intriguing. The concept of Oreintalism is also interesting. The way they portrayed the gypsies made the whole opera more interesting. They were portrayed as theives. Gypsies may not have been theives or how they were portrayed in the opera, which made discussing this opera and its themes interesting. I really enjoyed watching this opera in class.
I found that Carmen was a very interesing opera. I was surprised at how many famous melodies came from that one work. I thought that the scene on the mountain trail when the gypsies were running guns was very interesting because they incorporated the aspects of a cold winter into the scenery. They had it snowing and they had the mountain trail very cold and rocky. In that scene there was also a lot of drama between the characters because it is the turning point when Carmen decides not to be with Don Jose. I found that scene very well done and thought that Carmen overall was a very interesting opera.
I found Carmen very interesting in terms of Orientalism. Although I did not quite understand the claims that it may be racist, I certainly saw some stereotyping of the Gypsy cluture within the opera. If the fact that it was there wasn't pointed out to me ahead of time though, I doubt that I would have seen it. The scene I found the most interesting was the quintet where the gypsies try to convince Carmen to come with them on a smuggling trip. It cought my attention mostly because of the music. Although the actors did a wonderful job executing the music, I could tell that it must have been a hard piece to keep together. And overall, I found the ending quite suprising. Although the 'fate' theme was very ominous sounding, I didn't expect the Opera to end with Carmen getting killed. The rest of the Opera was so upbeat and entertaining that I didn't expect it to have such a dramatic conclusion.
i really liked carmen. i thought that it was really creative, and unlike the other operas we have seen, it wasn't boring to me. i think that this opera does go along well with orientalism, and out class discussions also help me understand it more as well. i dont really have a favorite scene, i like most of the scenes when everyone is in the bar and everyones dancing and singing. those would have to be my favorite parts but i dont have an individual favorite
This weeks performance and discussion of Carmen brought up a lot of interesting ideas. I think this opera used orientalism to create stereotypes of gypseys and Spanish people, like how Carmen falls in love with many different people throughout the opera, and how Don Jose lets his jealousy get the better of him. My favorite scene came from the first performance of the Toreador song, since the music was catchy and there were so many actors on stage dancing and singing.
Watching the movie Carmen and then discussing orientalism brought up a lot of very interesting points. I think that the ideas behind the plot for Carmen had been brewing up in French minds for a while but they did not want to portray French people as thiefs and deceteful people was not what they wanted to do so they placed it in a foreign country. There was no such thing as media so countries didnt really know what eachother was like and thats pretty much the idea behind orientalism, no one knew what other countries werre like so empires like France wanted to pretend like they knew eevrything.
Orientalism was a way for artists of the time period of Carmen to write about subjects that weren't commonly acceptable in French society. Looking at the manner in which this Orientalism style made people of different cultures appear is now considered discriminatory, but it was acceptable for them. It should be discussed but it also shouldn't ruin the art form as it is beautiful. The scene in which all of the gypsy women come out of the cigar factory was one of the most striking scenes that demonstrated this idea to me. The music of the opera changed to a slow paced mysterious tone, these women came out moving very fluidly, they appeared sweaty and dirty, and were scantily dressed. This is a blatant stereotype of gypsy women but it also lent itself well to the feel of the scene. So it is without question that Carmen is discriminatory to gypsy culture but it also is a classic opera that should be appreciated for its contribution to art.
I thoroughly enjoyed opera and never became bored with it. My personal favorite scene that I found most interesting was when the two gypsies began enjoying themselves and reading their fortunes off of "the cards". The music was very happy and cheerful as the girls sat on the mountain reading their fortune and about their future lovers. The music immediately changed when Carmen decided to read her fortune. The girls attitude also changed with the music and Carmen's mood, it was as though they already knew her fate. This is when the fate motif came in as Carmen learned that the demise of herself and Don Jose would soon come. I really enjoyed the fast switch of happy to dreadful, it was chilling.
As for Carmen being a racist opera, it's not. Sure there are songs like "Toredor" which is not a spanish word, but that happens all the time in performing arts. Like Mr. Schindler pointed out the "Nutcracker" has dances like the Chinese dance that is not seen as racist. I disagree with the statement that it is racist.
the most specific scene that discribes orientalism from carmen is the scene of all the women coming out of the factory and that they all were gypsies. This is a major sterotype and just shows how the french wanted to see these things bout wouldnt dare to place them in their own country.
When i watched Carmen i thought that the Orientalism was very prevalent. The gypsies were all the same. They all wore the same things, such as cloaks and scarves. All of the gypsies were banded together like a gang of thieves, and they all were working together to steal and lie to the officers. That itself seemed stereotypical, even though a lot of gypsies were in fact thieves. While i notice some stereotypes, i didn't think of them as racist because the fact that the French composers made them out to be that way. However, if it was someone just stating things like "all gypsies are thieves" then i would think of that as racist.
Out of all the operas we've seen so far, Carmen was definitely my favorite. I was really interested in it and it was easy to understand. Our discussion of Orientalism really helped me understand the opera as well because it was clear that there were stereotypes and the concept of "the other" was present. My favorite scene was when all of the gypsies came out at once and sang to the men. The scene where Carmen gets stabbed was also one that stuck in my head. Overall, it was a great opera and I think mostly everyone enjoyed it.
I found Carmen to be the most interesting opera that we have studied or watched so far. I especially enjoyed it since it was sung in French and I am in Castellow's third year french class. Now I think the word racist was used too liberally in discussions. The opera's use of gypsies and the setting in Spain may have been steryotyping but not racist. Gypsy is not a race, it is more of a lifestyle so that term doesn't apply I feel. The discussions of orientalism in class helped me better understand this idea. A scene I felt could be viewed as discriminating toward gypsies was in the beginning when all the gypsy women stopped working because a fight broke out. This depicted them all as lude, improper women, through their dress, actions, and speech.
I really liked Carmen alot. It was very interesting and an easy opera to relate to. As far as this opera being racist, i think you need to look for something to compare that to in the opera. nothing really jumps out at you and yells "RACIST". the only possible relation i can think of would be with the gypseys and how they are portrayed in the film/opera, as being lower class and 'easy'. my favorite scene in the opera was when all the worker girls came out with cigars and all the men flocked around them. i thought that was played out very well and was very realistic!
Carmen was a very interesting one to watch. I had heard some of the music before so i was somewhat familiar with it. It relates to orientalism because they make the gypsy's the others in this case and make them look all sweaty, trashy, and dirty. Which is a stereo type. Their clothes are ragged and they don't look as classy or innocent as the upper towns people. The seen i liked the most was when you first see Carmen on their work break and all the guys come out to see all the ladies. I like when Carmen chooses Don Jose and the song she sings.I also like how she gives him the flower and put him under her charm. This scene also shows how people thought of the gypsy woman as almost skanky.
In light of the orientialiam, I believe that carmen has several examples of this topic in many scenes. The first scene that comes to mind would be the scene where carmen tries to seduce jose. In this scene they are sterotyping that all gypsies are sex driven and very provocative. With this sterotype given, the french can reflect their own fantasies into their plays.
I could not clearly see why Carmen is viewed (by some) as a ‘racist opera’. Of course Bizet did not take the time to learn how Spaniards truly behave culturally, however the opera must attack a large group of people (in this case the Spaniards) in order to be racist. Bizet only intended to protect the moral values of his own country, but this does not mean he meant to demean those of other countries. Carmen is such a beautiful, lively piece. I don’t understand how a viewer can look past such brilliance and have such a negative perception of the play. One scene I found most particularly interesting was in the tavern where Carmen and a few other actors were dancing right before the Toreador arrived. I thought the dancing in this scene was interesting. It portrayed the common theme of the dangerously sensuality of women, for example that of Carmen’s. Carmen was supposed to be the girl that every man wanted as well as the ruin of every man. I thought that her dance as well as many of the other character’s that joined her, perfectly portrayed Bizet’s them of women in his opera, Carmen.
Going over the play and how it related to orientalism in class I thought was very interesting. I had a hard time seeing why people thought the play was racist, but i could definitely see the stereotypes. The gypsies were portrayed in the play as being very sexual and dishonest. My favorite scene in the play was when they were in the mountains and the snow was coming down. The producers did an excellent job with the snow effects.
Personally I dont think that Carmen was extremely racist. Just because they moved the location of the play to draw attention away from their own country does not mean that they were being racist. Some people could argue that it is racist, saying that sort of stuff does not happen in their country. But I don't think that the play was done with the intent of being racist.
The scene that I found most interesting was when they were smuggling guns over the mountain pass. The way that they set up the lights made the set look very realistic.
Carmen overall I found to be pretty good. It had recognizable tunes which made it entertaining. I know there were alot of thoughts that it was a "racist" opera, but I really don't think it was. I think people got this idea because orientalism can sometimes be percieved as a "racist" theme. Carmen did show diversity however. She, a gypsy, and the man she loved for a time was a soldier. A particular scene that sort of showed the differences and emphasized the fact that it was orientalism was when all the gypsies were singing and they were sort of doing some "risky" or "provacative" dancing and so forth. That is how they were portrayed, it wasn't so much racism as it was showing how they acted, maybe stereotyping but not racism.
Carmen is obviously an orientalist piece, with each part that could be taken as offensive to the French acted out by an "other". It was orientalist to the point of showing how a good french boy could be led astray be a sexy, exotic gypsy woman. My favorite scene was the toreador scene, where the gypsys were all dancing, showing an extreme stereotype, and then as soon as the toreador comes in everyone freezes and starts to praise him, because although the job that he does may not require a lot of thinking or French desirable qualities, it is very dangerous and "exotic".
The only way I could see Carmen as a racist opera would be because the story is placed in Spain in stead of France. This is in a way discriminating, because they thought that it would be OK for gypsies to act as promiscuous as they did, showing how the French looked down on them. I liked this opera a lot better than the other ones we’ve seen because it was easier to understand and there was a lot more going on. My favorite scene was the one when we are introduced to the main characters of the play, and they were all singing about Carmen. This builds up excitement, making you curious of whom she is.
I really liked Carmen and found it very creative, and unlike the other Operas we have seen. The discussions in class about how Orientalism its portrayed racism helped me to understand the opera better because with out that being mentioned, I probably wouldn't have classified that opera as being racist what so ever. There weren't any scenes that were particularly my favorite, I thought the ending scene where Carmen got stabbed was interesting. Overall I enjoyed watching Carmen and thought it was a great opera!
Carmen displayed how other cultures passed off their indiscretions onto other, lesser-known cultures. Despite how proper the french were in the time period being portrayed, the writer of Carmen showed them to be extremely promiscuous, moving often from lover to lover. Carmen proclaimed her love for multiple men, and all were passionately in love with her. The final scene was most interesting to me because of Carmen's intense passion that spread to many men, she became a victim to that passion and was killed. The extremes of these actions would never have been portrayed in a play about Europeans, so it was passed off onto others.
when we discussed this in class and talked if it really was a racist play or not i decided it was not racist. it is just a historical depiction of how times were, the only thing that may have been kind of off was that of the gypsies. it seems to show that all gypsies would be gun smugglers and theives is untrue. i think over all it isnt a racist play but there are some parts of it they bring up questions.
Carmen was alright. A lot of the songs such as the torreador were recognizable motifs. The play wasn't as much racist as it was stereotyping kinds of people, put the racism discussion was about how they viewed countries of orient that could have been considered racist. The scene I remember the most was at the end when he stabs that girl and everyone confronts him.
I missed most of Carmen in class because I was sick all last week. However I watch it a little bit last Friday. It was the famous song with the three ladies and the two men singing and the men were trying to get the women to come "entertain" some men to get money, but Carmen refused because she was in love. She was waiting for a man who was getting out of jail that day. There were gypsies in the piece and they were very free, loud, and lively.
Overall I thought Carmen was a good opera. It had many interesting concepts, and many recognizable music and motifs. I liked how I knew most of the music, without even knowing the opera at all. This isnt necessarily a racist opera because it is just potraying how people acted during that time period. To relate to our discussion however, it does stereotype the gypsies as theives. The most memorable scene to me was when all of the gypsies came out and were dancing. This in paticular, put a stereotype on the gypsies, and on the French people as well. I also liked the ending scene when Carmen is stabbed by the man who loves her the most. I really enjoyed watching this in class.
I found Carmen to be a really good and entertaining. The opera portrayed how times were back then, and that doesnt automatically mean that it is a racist play. It is simply telling how things were seen in those times. Also, the play seemed to be more on the stereotyping side rather than racist. It stereotypes all gypsies to be theives, which isnt really true. Like in out discussion, just because one gypsy steals, doesn't mean all of them will. There were also a lot of recognizable music, which now I can say I know the name to. The most memorable scene was deffinately the end, when Carmen is killed. She switches lovers so much to the point where everything catches up with her, and she is killed. Its rather tragic, but makes a good story in the end.
While discussing the opera Carmen, I was able to further analyze the opera and notice things that were not previously as apparent. Such as the toreador song, that does not actually translate to an existing Spanish word. Also, the viewpoints about Carmen being a racist opera were interesting to hear. Although, I do not feel that it portrays such a message. I personally liked the idea of having orientalist themes as well as the location that the piece took place. I definitely enjoyed this opera far more than the rest.
I thought Carmen was suppossed to be pretty but in the opera she was kinda really repulsive. Her face was all sunk in and she was just icky looking. I always wondered how Carmen could have 2 men with the way she looked and why she was so "desireable." My favorite part of the whole opera was the toureador song. I also liked how Carmen was in the end belonging to one man kinda but all the things she did, she eventually got what she deserved.
I don't think Carmen is a racist opera. I think Carmen has a lot of stereotypes.Without stereotypes how else would you figure out that Carmen was a gypsy. I like the opera overall and a lot of the music I have already heard. I have seen a lot of reverences to the opera but never saw the whole opera . I still don't get why Don Jose kills Carmen in the end. I don't think any amount of love would want you to kill the person you love unless your crazy.
Even though we have talked about racism and orientalism I have a hard time believing that the orientalist operas are racist. Looking at Carmen I didn't feel like they were being racist. They did use the idea of making other cultures the "others" but not in a way that they were calling the Spanish culture inferior. The scene I found most interesting was when the Gypsies came out of the cigar factory and were acting all sexy, it made me think of the reactions that the people in France would have had if it were a bunch of French women out there acting like that.
After our discussion on Oreientalism in class, I was able to see how the play is used as an example of orientalism from the scene at the beginning of the play where the women come out of the factory smoking cigars. These women were looked down upon and the European upper class did not want to propose that things like this occured anywhere in their "elegant" country during that time period. I found the scene where Don Jose stabbed Carmen to be most interesting. It was hard for me to understand why he would stab someone he is suppose to "love" so much. And to touch on our discussion of "racism", i dont think that was a theme within the play. It was only one person's interpretation. I believe the racial undertone brought up by the negative depiction of gypsys was in the play due to their part and wasn't put in the opera to show that there was racism going on outside of the play.
Discussing Orietalism and its uses in Opera have been interesting, I find it interesting how the writer of scripts such as Carmen were forced to hid there actual meanings behind their stories by placing them in far off lands and making them some what racist. I enjoyed the movie of Carmen a lot and thought it had an excellent cast and I enjoyed the setting and pirate type of theme given to it by orientalism.
Overall i found Carmen to be very interesting, and entertaining. I liked it becasue I recongized some of the sounds, and the story line was interesting. For me it's hard to believe people thought the play was racist, I could see the stereotypes with the gypsies. The scene that I rhink of is when Carmen is waiting for Jose and then tries to seduce him by getting on the table and dancing for him, then having him come with her to the mountains. This scene showed some of the sterotypes that the play has.
Carmen is a very good example of Orientalism, one because it is written by a Frenchmen but set in Spain, and also it was obvious that the writing and music took some liberties on Spanish culture, and added some flair to it. It's just like what Hollywood does with real stories, they say in the beginning of the movie that this is "based on a true story" but they spice it up and add things that make it so people will watch it. In the case of Carmen, some of the stuff was made up not only to make it more interesting but also because Spanish culture was very unknown at the time Carmen was written. The play could have just as easily been written and set in a French city, with French gypsies. The scene in the bar with first the gypsies then the bull fighters and then the smugglers. It's not like those things didn't happen in France it's just that the original audience was French and it casts a bad light on their country, so they set it in Spain to make it acceptable.
I got really into the discussion about Orietalism in class. But, while I watched the play I did not feel there was as much Orietalism as I thought it was going to consist of. I almost didn't view the opera as racist at all. I saw in early seens that Don did not want to fall in love with Carmen because of what she was. So that shows that gyspy's are looked down upon. Also, the scene in the bar, I felt was the only scene that was mildly racist. Mostly because it focused on gypsys only being good at dancing. Otherwise I felt this was an excellent opera music wise.
The one scene that pops out most in my mind is the scene of when they're at the smuggling mountain place. The way that the stereo types shine. the men are loud, bold, abusive (in a general sense) and controlling. The women are proud, weak, and used while being controlling in their own way. The story fits the scenery, but the feel of it all seems out of place, and in the wrong type of area.
Overall i really liked carmen because i actually recognized some of the songs from it which was cool. Carmen was stereotyping gypsies in being sneaky and untrustful. The scene i found most interesting was the part when carmen and all of them were on the mountain trying to smuggle the weapons past the guards. Because its like at that point everyone is drawn together by fate. I wish i could have seen the end of the opera to find out what happened at the end of it
65 comments:
Jamae Coonts
period 6
Discussing this in class helped. When schindler had talked about the toreador song and how toreador was not an actual word and they had made it up for the opera itself, i wonder if they do that a alot. When i first heard the toreador song i assumed it was an old spanish song that had been around for years. I also think that the pertrayel of the gypseys were accurate to most human beings assumption of what gypseys are. Although a good portion of gypseys probably arnt thiefs, its just the general nature of them.
Phillip Foshee
period 6
I liked Carmen allot. This opera has been a very intersting piece to go along with orietalism. I like how Mr. Schindler described to us that bad girls have metzo voices, and good girls have soprano voices. This helped me alot when i was watching Carmen and i was looking for the different voice levels. my favorete scene was when carmen was telling the soldier not to leave her and he was saying he had to go back for role call. This was intesting because she was singing to him and trying to seriante him With her beautiful voice.
Mackenzie Engel
Period 6
I never viewed Carmen as a "racist" opera, despite the negative connotation that Orientalism seems to have at times. Considering the time period of the opera I think that depicting the events in a far off culture is understandable, although not necessarily “right” per say. I don’t feel that the intention of setting Carmen in a foreign land was to degrade that land specifically but rather to simply remove the events of the opera from the culture it would be preformed for because the idea of such dealings in the European upper class was uncomfortable to think of for viewers. The scene that I found the most interesting was the scene in which all of the gypsies come out of the smoke shop that they work in. They were blatantly displayed as raunchy and improper lower class characters from their costumes and makeup to their body language to their songs. This scene displays the ideas of Orientalism in Carmen fully.
Tess Opincarne
Period 6
If the use of Orientalism had any negativity at all in the opera, I would say it was the use of the gypsies rather than the dancing that would have been offensive to "proper French people." I thought that the most interesting scene was that which had the three women reading the card. I thought how it was laid out, with the two in front singing to eachother and Carmen listening in, then joining in and reading her own bad omens to herself.
I have really liked Carmen, even though every time i see Carmen i think of my big fat Greek wedding. I believe that orietalism can be seen as racist but only if you try to make it into something negative. I think all operas and everything around us has things that will degrade something or someone and if there were not things like that we would all be living in plastic boxes all to ourselves. In the play that we watched, i really liked when the messenger came in and all the guys just stopped and watched her until there was the one bold guy eager to confront her. I thought that was funny because it actually showed a real thing that happens all the time. Even now when there is a cute person or something everyone will just stop and stare and there will always be one daring person. But I also wish i saw when Carmen got stabbed because that would have probably been the most grabbing part of the play, there was not much to keep you on your toes. There was also the sword fight over who stayed with Carmen which i liked. When the two army guys fought over her that was kind of exciting too.
I don't think I viewed Carmen any differently after our discussion about possible racist connotations. I think that if anything, the idea of the "other" and setting Carmen in an exotic location added to the depth of the opera. There were elements that I can see being caused by the ingnorance of the time period; the portrayal of gypsies, don jose, and the use of the made up word "toreador". But again I think this all has to do with the time period, and art such as this; and the Pearl Fishers should not be discounted because of these naive ideas.
Preston Longoni
Period 4
I believe that the opera Carmen potrayed what we had talked about in class in regards to orientalism quite well because of the fact that the stage and the types of people - such as gypseys - differ from the French and France, and their views on how they look at themselves. The play was very sexual I thought, which the French wanted to express but keep hidden, and they did a great job in doing so in this opera. My favorite scene was when it was snowing. I just thought it was neat how they made it look as if it were snowing so well.
Kyle Glaser
Period 2
I loved Carmen so much. I recognized three fourths of the songs and the songs I didnt know, I felt like I knew the songs because they were so catchy and musically wonderful. I think that Orientalism was not all that prominent in Carmen but it was definately there. The gypseys were shown as lower human beings and that the white folk are enticed by them. In the scene where the gypseys come out to smoke and the men treat them like animals as just some one you can love and leave. It was a great opera and if I hear more operas like that then I may become an opera fanatic like Mr. Schlinder.
Rosie Polaschek, Per. 4
I really really liked Carmen, I thought it was a much more interesting and fast-paced opera than the other ones we'd seen, and a lot more understandable.
In terms of Orientalism, I think you could definitely see the stereotypes in the portrayals of the gypsy characters and of the "passionate" Spanish men and the "Toreador" song brought out a lot of that as well. However I didn't think that it was a racist opera in any sense, as you can still see blatant stereotypes used in most movies that come out nowadays, and although they are sometimes offensive they are generally just used as easily recognisable, distinctive ways to allow the audience to understand the character.
One of my favourite scenes was one of the earliest in the opera, where all the cigarette girls come out from the factory and the men all queue up to ask Carmen who will be her next lover.
Leticia Lopez Period 4
The opera Carmen has racist undertones but when i think about the poem "the White Man's Burden" Carmen don't even sound like it. The opera was way more like hidden of stereotypes. like of course they were there with that all gypsies dance a certain way, smoke, smuggle guns, and are basic hoes when it come down to it. French society could write about everyone else and try to make up that all countries besides them a nd a precious few other countries area all whats the word..premiscuous..is that it? but anyway, yeah i love how they think that they all whatchu call it..stuck up? no its called modest but anyway yeah, like aint they the biggest hoes goin round n round like no other? but anyways my faborite scene was when in the beginging when all the chick was out smokin n ..stuff..like that was hella tight cuz i dont know Don Jose was jus talkin about how they was no good and they weren't like the girls back home. i thought it was funny cuz i was thinkin how bad are they really n they all come out for a smoke break..the end.
Tia Bailey period 4
Carmen was definately my favorite play/Opera so far. It reminds me a lot of the Opera Les Miserables (which is MY all-time favorite).
I found it interesting that when we were talking about how the french wrote the play, the play is spoken in french, but is set in spain. It really did shine on the fact that not only did the french have imagination, but also that they were a little hoity toity. How they would never degrade themselves to the low like qualities of the Gypsies, and they would never betray their country for smugglers, or dance showing their petty coats!In a way its a little ridiculous, concidering they were the first ones to come out with the CAN-CAN!!!! talk about showing/strutting your stuff!
My favorite scene was when Escamillio came in and sang his toreador song. Not only was that very recognizable but very fun as well. I love the Hanbanera song, but Toreador beats it.
Jinny Kim p.4
I really liked Opera Carmen. I Think Opera Carmen was not boring as other Operas that we saw. The interesting of Opera Carmen was wrote in French but set in Spanish and put actual words. This Opera helped to understand how gypseys life was. My favorite scene was when Carmen sings Habanera. I really like that song and I knew that song before but I did not know that song was came from the Carmen. Also I really liked violin sounds in the Toreador song.
Cristina Rice
Period 2
Carmen was probably my favorite opera. My favorite scene was when they have the dance and everyone dancing and Carmen is singing a solo. I like it because there is a lot of people on stage and their all dancing and it just looks good and sounds good as well. By talking about Carmen in class it helped me learn more about Orientalism and what the play was truly about. Also the quintet was very good and they were all in unison. I also like that we had heard all lot of the tunes and they were very catchy and fun.
Brian Penoyer, 2nd Period
While Carmen had some stereotypes in it, mainly concerning gypsies, I really don't see it as racist. As far as orientalism goes, maybe Bizet wanted to show what the stereotype of gypsies were at the time in France, either in criticism or praise for thier free life style. My favorite part of the video was probably during the quintet with Carmen and the smugglers, because I really appreciate how hard it must be to sing in perfect unison with four other people at that speed (and it was a pretty up beat song)
Chris Hong Period 6
I thought Carmen was great. It definitely represented the orientalism by making gypseys bad characters in the opera. for example, many gypsesys like Caremen looked very seducing and bad. i thought that kind of idea in the opera represented orientalism the best. my favorite scene was the ending. i couldn't really understand why the soilder would kill his lover but i guess that is his way of expressing love for Carmen. I thought the ending was relly epic and loud. singing thoughtout the opera was really really good as well as the story line. I enjoyed it a lot
Sara McCallum
Period 6
If Bizet had made the opera Carmen set in France at the time it would have offended the masses. The opera is of Orient style because of the sexual nature of the gypsies. Also, the way the setting is the French's perception of what Spain is like.
I enjoyed the scene where the girls came out of the cigarette factory and started to walk around smoking around the men out on the streets in front of the factory. Then, they all turn to the top level on the stairs to see Carmen come down. Then they all start asking who she would take as her new lover and she sings a solo about her not choosing a new one until she feels the need to choose another. Until she sees Don Jose, who she then chooses to be her next lover. He resists for a little while but finally give in to her advances.
Shae Hurst Period 6
I don’t necessarily look at orientalism as being a bad thing, but rather a style of the time period. With that in mind I thought that Carmen obviously portrayed this style. In the beginning of the second act of the play, when all the gypsies, Carmen included are gathered in that bar singing, I thought orientalism was shown very clearly. The singing and dancing was joyous and to our modern eyes didn’t look risqué, but I think at the time it was written to seem that way. Also, I found the inclusion of the soldiers and other higher up military officials in the scene gave it even more of a scandalous connotation. Bizet combines the gypsies, with the army officials who are supposed to be law enforcing, law abiding, and respectable individuals. This is something that French people would have staunchly frowned upon. In far away Spain however Bizet is free to imply corruption in the government, as well as the many sexually promiscuous, and unlawful actions. I think that despite the clear misrepresentations in the opera, Bizet did what many of us do today, he made generalizations, albeit very uneducated ones. I think Carmen is a good story and that’s what it should be viewed as, while orientalism is present in the setting and actions of its characters it was just a fad of the time.
Jessica Taylor per 2
I don’t think that Carmen was a racist opera at all. Yes there was a pre-conceived view of gypsies that was used but to take is as far as racist is a little over the top. I think that when you watch an opera that was written in a different time period, you have to think the way they did then to fully appreciate the opera. Back then people had no idea what Spaniard or gypsies were like so they used the information they did have.
Stephanie Morgan
period 6
I really liked Carmen. One of the things that I liked most about it was that I recognized some of the songs from it, without knowing they were even part of an opera. You could see the orientalism in Carmen mainly in the stereotype of the gypsies and I don’t think the opera was racist pretty much at all, because almost every person in this time period and before has used stereotypes.
I think my favorite scene in the opera was the “Toreador" song because it was one of the ones I recognized.
Andrew Kemis Period 6
Aside from All The Kings Men, Carmen has now become my favorite performance. Now I understand you cant really put an opera and compare it to a straight play but I really found both very interesting and entertaining. Carmen, I believe, intriqued me because of the amazing set that was able to be changed. I was astonished at how different but yet complex the sets were for having many different lications. The music of Carmen was exceptional and I think that can be attributed to the cast, the language and the style. My favorite song was near the beginning and Carmen was singing about being careful if she were to give a man her love. The whole dynamic of the love triangle were compelling and exciting. Looking at the orientalist idea I do not understand why they thought it proper to ship the story off and have it be played as though it were in a foreign country. To me I feel that situations like this would have appeared all over the world. As for scenes I found most interesting well most all were however I thought (I believe it was act three) the act with the smugglers and the change of scene to the ocean and the stairs was not as interesting and the excitement had gone compared to all the other acts. I very much I liked that Opera.
Michelle Le, period 2
Carmen is definitely my favorite opera we've seen so far. When it comes to Orientalism, I don't think that it should be viewed as a racist opera, but rather what the French thought of "the others" at that time. It should just be enjoyed for what it is, and people shouldn't think too deeply about Orientalsm while watching it or it'll just ruin the whole experience. But an example of Orientalism in Carmen, is how the gypsies are portrayed. They were all shown as thieves, who read the future in cards, and danced in a way that would've been inappropriate to the French at the time. The French used gypsies to portray this because the thought of a French person doing any of that would've been disasterous. The scene that most interested me was the first act. I was very impressed by the sets. There was so much detail that went into it with all the windows, doors, and brick work. It was amazing.
Jordan Adam Per. 4
I thoroughly enjoyed watching Carmen. Unlike the other operas we’ve seen (like Elektra) the music was pleasant to listen to the entire way through. That I’ve learned some French and felt familiar with the language being sung also helped. I was genuinely entertained for most of the show. Two scenes that stuck especially in my mind were the Smugglers’ quintet and the climactic murder of Carmen. I loved the blended cascading harmony that the quintet created; each voice was separate and combined with others simultaneously. The harmony and vocal interplay in that scene was wonderful. I enjoyed the encounter between Don John and Carmen because of its artful use of all the motifs previously established in the opera. I loved hearing all the numerous distinct riffs that brought back images of previous parts in the show.
I didn’t find the opera to be racist at all. Even after learning that Carmen’s composer set the opera in Spain to avoid thinking about its lustful themes in a local context, I don’t feel the work was derogatory. The show was set in Spain to prevent it being in France, not because the French necessarily believed that all Spanish people had the traits exhibited by characters in the opera. Nowhere are Spanish or Gypsy folk generalized by their race, or made to seem inferior to other races. The purpose of the setting was only to avoid another setting.
Sam Franklin Per. 6
The discussion we had in class about Orientalism and the idea behind it made me see parts of Carmen that I wouldn’t have noticed or would have seen differently otherwise. I never really thought about the how accurately the setting and people in plays were performed; I just accepted what I saw as truth. But after talking in class I saw the opera differently. I never would have questioned that the word Toreador wasn't a real word, I just assumed it was a bull fighters title but it makes me wonder how often plays and operas change events and make up words to fit the context or theme and portray a group or area differently.
Heather Thomas Period 2
I Really enjoyed Carmen! I liked how much of the music I already knew and from what I didn't know, it was very catchy and fun. After discussing Orintalism in class, I really noticed that gypsey's were portrayed as the outsider. Talking about racism and wondering if it were used in Carmen... I'd say yes. For example in the scene at the begining where all the gypsey's came out singing and the officers were keeping them together.
Kristina Thorson
per 2
I really enjoyed watching Carmen in class. The music and the dancing was very intriguing. The concept of Oreintalism is also interesting. The way they portrayed the gypsies made the whole opera more interesting. They were portrayed as theives. Gypsies may not have been theives or how they were portrayed in the opera, which made discussing this opera and its themes interesting. I really enjoyed watching this opera in class.
Andrew Pilgrim Period 4
I found that Carmen was a very interesing opera. I was surprised at how many famous melodies came from that one work. I thought that the scene on the mountain trail when the gypsies were running guns was very interesting because they incorporated the aspects of a cold winter into the scenery. They had it snowing and they had the mountain trail very cold and rocky. In that scene there was also a lot of drama between the characters because it is the turning point when Carmen decides not to be with Don Jose. I found that scene very well done and thought that Carmen overall was a very interesting opera.
Megan Lowry Per. 2
I found Carmen very interesting in terms of Orientalism. Although I did not quite understand the claims that it may be racist, I certainly saw some stereotyping of the Gypsy cluture within the opera. If the fact that it was there wasn't pointed out to me ahead of time though, I doubt that I would have seen it. The scene I found the most interesting was the quintet where the gypsies try to convince Carmen to come with them on a smuggling trip. It cought my attention mostly because of the music. Although the actors did a wonderful job executing the music, I could tell that it must have been a hard piece to keep together. And overall, I found the ending quite suprising. Although the 'fate' theme was very ominous sounding, I didn't expect the Opera to end with Carmen getting killed. The rest of the Opera was so upbeat and entertaining that I didn't expect it to have such a dramatic conclusion.
i really liked carmen. i thought that it was really creative, and unlike the other operas we have seen, it wasn't boring to me. i think that this opera does go along well with orientalism, and out class discussions also help me understand it more as well. i dont really have a favorite scene, i like most of the scenes when everyone is in the bar and everyones dancing and singing. those would have to be my favorite parts but i dont have an individual favorite
Gabe Gonzalez Period 2
This weeks performance and discussion of Carmen brought up a lot of interesting ideas. I think this opera used orientalism to create stereotypes of gypseys and Spanish people, like how Carmen falls in love with many different people throughout the opera, and how Don Jose lets his jealousy get the better of him. My favorite scene came from the first performance of the Toreador song, since the music was catchy and there were so many actors on stage dancing and singing.
Clayton Butler
Period 2
Watching the movie Carmen and then discussing orientalism brought up a lot of very interesting points. I think that the ideas behind the plot for Carmen had been brewing up in French minds for a while but they did not want to portray French people as thiefs and deceteful people was not what they wanted to do so they placed it in a foreign country. There was no such thing as media so countries didnt really know what eachother was like and thats pretty much the idea behind orientalism, no one knew what other countries werre like so empires like France wanted to pretend like they knew eevrything.
Nathan Zimmerman, Per. 6
Orientalism was a way for artists of the time period of Carmen to write about subjects that weren't commonly acceptable in French society. Looking at the manner in which this Orientalism style made people of different cultures appear is now considered discriminatory, but it was acceptable for them. It should be discussed but it also shouldn't ruin the art form as it is beautiful. The scene in which all of the gypsy women come out of the cigar factory was one of the most striking scenes that demonstrated this idea to me. The music of the opera changed to a slow paced mysterious tone, these women came out moving very fluidly, they appeared sweaty and dirty, and were scantily dressed. This is a blatant stereotype of gypsy women but it also lent itself well to the feel of the scene. So it is without question that Carmen is discriminatory to gypsy culture but it also is a classic opera that should be appreciated for its contribution to art.
Sarah Jane Elliott
Period 2
I thoroughly enjoyed opera and never became bored with it. My personal favorite scene that I found most interesting was when the two gypsies began enjoying themselves and reading their fortunes off of "the cards". The music was very happy and cheerful as the girls sat on the mountain reading their fortune and about their future lovers. The music immediately changed when Carmen decided to read her fortune. The girls attitude also changed with the music and Carmen's mood, it was as though they already knew her fate. This is when the fate motif came in as Carmen learned that the demise of herself and Don Jose would soon come. I really enjoyed the fast switch of happy to dreadful, it was chilling.
As for Carmen being a racist opera, it's not. Sure there are songs like "Toredor" which is not a spanish word, but that happens all the time in performing arts. Like Mr. Schindler pointed out the "Nutcracker" has dances like the Chinese dance that is not seen as racist. I disagree with the statement that it is racist.
Matt MacDougall
Per 4
the most specific scene that discribes orientalism from carmen is the scene of all the women coming out of the factory and that they all were gypsies. This is a major sterotype and just shows how the french wanted to see these things bout wouldnt dare to place them in their own country.
andrew song period 6
When i watched Carmen i thought that the Orientalism was very prevalent. The gypsies were all the same. They all wore the same things, such as cloaks and scarves. All of the gypsies were banded together like a gang of thieves, and they all were working together to steal and lie to the officers. That itself seemed stereotypical, even though a lot of gypsies were in fact thieves. While i notice some stereotypes, i didn't think of them as racist because the fact that the French composers made them out to be that way. However, if it was someone just stating things like "all gypsies are thieves" then i would think of that as racist.
Regan McComb p.6
Out of all the operas we've seen so far, Carmen was definitely my favorite. I was really interested in it and it was easy to understand. Our discussion of Orientalism really helped me understand the opera as well because it was clear that there were stereotypes and the concept of "the other" was present. My favorite scene was when all of the gypsies came out at once and sang to the men. The scene where Carmen gets stabbed was also one that stuck in my head. Overall, it was a great opera and I think mostly everyone enjoyed it.
Bergen Anderson per. 2
I found Carmen to be the most interesting opera that we have studied or watched so far. I especially enjoyed it since it was sung in French and I am in Castellow's third year french class. Now I think the word racist was used too liberally in discussions. The opera's use of gypsies and the setting in Spain may have been steryotyping but not racist. Gypsy is not a race, it is more of a lifestyle so that term doesn't apply I feel. The discussions of orientalism in class helped me better understand this idea. A scene I felt could be viewed as discriminating toward gypsies was in the beginning when all the gypsy women stopped working because a fight broke out. This depicted them all as lude, improper women, through their dress, actions, and speech.
Sam Bellefeuille P-6
I really liked Carmen alot. It was very interesting and an easy opera to relate to. As far as this opera being racist, i think you need to look for something to compare that to in the opera. nothing really jumps out at you and yells "RACIST". the only possible relation i can think of would be with the gypseys and how they are portrayed in the film/opera, as being lower class and 'easy'. my favorite scene in the opera was when all the worker girls came out with cigars and all the men flocked around them. i thought that was played out very well and was very realistic!
Carmen was a very interesting one to watch. I had heard some of the music before so i was somewhat familiar with it. It relates to orientalism because they make the gypsy's the others in this case and make them look all sweaty, trashy, and dirty. Which is a stereo type. Their clothes are ragged and they don't look as classy or innocent as the upper towns people. The seen i liked the most was when you first see Carmen on their work break and all the guys come out to see all the ladies. I like when Carmen chooses Don Jose and the song she sings.I also like how she gives him the flower and put him under her charm. This scene also shows how people thought of the gypsy woman as almost skanky.
Karin Ochsner per 4
In light of the orientialiam, I believe that carmen has several examples of this topic in many scenes. The first scene that comes to mind would be the scene where carmen tries to seduce jose. In this scene they are sterotyping that all gypsies are sex driven and very provocative. With this sterotype given, the french can reflect their own fantasies into their plays.
Bryttany Enge, Period 6
I could not clearly see why Carmen is viewed (by some) as a ‘racist opera’. Of course Bizet did not take the time to learn how Spaniards truly behave culturally, however the opera must attack a large group of people (in this case the Spaniards) in order to be racist. Bizet only intended to protect the moral values of his own country, but this does not mean he meant to demean those of other countries. Carmen is such a beautiful, lively piece. I don’t understand how a viewer can look past such brilliance and have such a negative perception of the play.
One scene I found most particularly interesting was in the tavern where Carmen and a few other actors were dancing right before the Toreador arrived. I thought the dancing in this scene was interesting. It portrayed the common theme of the dangerously sensuality of women, for example that of Carmen’s. Carmen was supposed to be the girl that every man wanted as well as the ruin of every man. I thought that her dance as well as many of the other character’s that joined her, perfectly portrayed Bizet’s them of women in his opera, Carmen.
Kenny Exelby Period 4
Going over the play and how it related to orientalism in class I thought was very interesting. I had a hard time seeing why people thought the play was racist, but i could definitely see the stereotypes. The gypsies were portrayed in the play as being very sexual and dishonest. My favorite scene in the play was when they were in the mountains and the snow was coming down. The producers did an excellent job with the snow effects.
Stuart Dransfield
Period 6
Personally I dont think that Carmen was extremely racist. Just because they moved the location of the play to draw attention away from their own country does not mean that they were being racist. Some people could argue that it is racist, saying that sort of stuff does not happen in their country. But I don't think that the play was done with the intent of being racist.
The scene that I found most interesting was when they were smuggling guns over the mountain pass. The way that they set up the lights made the set look very realistic.
Stephanie Bateman Period 2
Carmen overall I found to be pretty good. It had recognizable tunes which made it entertaining. I know there were alot of thoughts that it was a "racist" opera, but I really don't think it was. I think people got this idea because orientalism can sometimes be percieved as a "racist" theme. Carmen did show diversity however. She, a gypsy, and the man she loved for a time was a soldier. A particular scene that sort of showed the differences and emphasized the fact that it was orientalism was when all the gypsies were singing and they were sort of doing some "risky" or "provacative" dancing and so forth. That is how they were portrayed, it wasn't so much racism as it was showing how they acted, maybe stereotyping but not racism.
rebecca taicz. period 6
Carmen is obviously an orientalist piece, with each part that could be taken as offensive to the French acted out by an "other". It was orientalist to the point of showing how a good french boy could be led astray be a sexy, exotic gypsy woman. My favorite scene was the toreador scene, where the gypsys were all dancing, showing an extreme stereotype, and then as soon as the toreador comes in everyone freezes and starts to praise him, because although the job that he does may not require a lot of thinking or French desirable qualities, it is very dangerous and "exotic".
Christin Thrane
Period 4
The only way I could see Carmen as a racist opera would be because the story is placed in Spain in stead of France. This is in a way discriminating, because they thought that it would be OK for gypsies to act as promiscuous as they did, showing how the French looked down on them. I liked this opera a lot better than the other ones we’ve seen because it was easier to understand and there was a lot more going on. My favorite scene was the one when we are introduced to the main characters of the play, and they were all singing about Carmen. This builds up excitement, making you curious of whom she is.
I really liked Carmen and found it very creative, and unlike the other Operas we have seen. The discussions in class about how Orientalism its portrayed racism helped me to understand the opera better because with out that being mentioned, I probably wouldn't have classified that opera as being racist what so ever. There weren't any scenes that were particularly my favorite, I thought the ending scene where Carmen got stabbed was interesting. Overall I enjoyed watching Carmen and thought it was a great opera!
Jessica Karr, p.4
Carmen displayed how other cultures passed off their indiscretions onto other, lesser-known cultures. Despite how proper the french were in the time period being portrayed, the writer of Carmen showed them to be extremely promiscuous, moving often from lover to lover. Carmen proclaimed her love for multiple men, and all were passionately in love with her. The final scene was most interesting to me because of Carmen's intense passion that spread to many men, she became a victim to that passion and was killed. The extremes of these actions would never have been portrayed in a play about Europeans, so it was passed off onto others.
michael haines
period 4
when we discussed this in class and talked if it really was a racist play or not i decided it was not racist. it is just a historical depiction of how times were, the only thing that may have been kind of off was that of the gypsies. it seems to show that all gypsies would be gun smugglers and theives is untrue. i think over all it isnt a racist play but there are some parts of it they bring up questions.
Evan Norris Per. 6
Carmen was alright. A lot of the songs such as the torreador were recognizable motifs. The play wasn't as much racist as it was stereotyping kinds of people, put the racism discussion was about how they viewed countries of orient that could have been considered racist. The scene I remember the most was at the end when he stabs that girl and everyone confronts him.
Alyssa De Hoop Period 4
I missed most of Carmen in class because I was sick all last week. However I watch it a little bit last Friday. It was the famous song with the three ladies and the two men singing and the men were trying to get the women to come "entertain" some men to get money, but Carmen refused because she was in love. She was waiting for a man who was getting out of jail that day. There were gypsies in the piece and they were very free, loud, and lively.
Mike Smolkowski
Period 4
Overall I thought Carmen was a good opera. It had many interesting concepts, and many recognizable music and motifs. I liked how I knew most of the music, without even knowing the opera at all. This isnt necessarily a racist opera because it is just potraying how people acted during that time period. To relate to our discussion however, it does stereotype the gypsies as theives. The most memorable scene to me was when all of the gypsies came out and were dancing. This in paticular, put a stereotype on the gypsies, and on the French people as well. I also liked the ending scene when Carmen is stabbed by the man who loves her the most. I really enjoyed watching this in class.
Mandi DeLaVergne, Period 6
I found Carmen to be a really good and entertaining. The opera portrayed how times were back then, and that doesnt automatically mean that it is a racist play. It is simply telling how things were seen in those times. Also, the play seemed to be more on the stereotyping side rather than racist. It stereotypes all gypsies to be theives, which isnt really true. Like in out discussion, just because one gypsy steals, doesn't mean all of them will. There were also a lot of recognizable music, which now I can say I know the name to. The most memorable scene was deffinately the end, when Carmen is killed. She switches lovers so much to the point where everything catches up with her, and she is killed. Its rather tragic, but makes a good story in the end.
Montana Ferris / Period 2
While discussing the opera Carmen, I was able to further analyze the opera and notice things that were not previously as apparent. Such as the toreador song, that does not actually translate to an existing Spanish word. Also, the viewpoints about Carmen being a racist opera were interesting to hear. Although, I do not feel that it portrays such a message. I personally liked the idea of having orientalist themes as well as the location that the piece took place. I definitely enjoyed this opera far more than the rest.
Erika Hodges
Per. 2
I thought Carmen was suppossed to be pretty but in the opera she was kinda really repulsive. Her face was all sunk in and she was just icky looking. I always wondered how Carmen could have 2 men with the way she looked and why she was so "desireable." My favorite part of the whole opera was the toureador song. I also liked how Carmen was in the end belonging to one man kinda but all the things she did, she eventually got what she deserved.
Dathan Bauman
period 2
I don't think Carmen is a racist opera. I think Carmen has a lot of stereotypes.Without stereotypes how else would you figure out that Carmen was a gypsy. I like the opera overall and a lot of the music I have already heard. I have seen a lot of reverences to the opera but never saw the whole opera . I still don't get why Don Jose kills Carmen in the end. I don't think any amount of love would want you to kill the person you love unless your crazy.
Megan Pinzon period 4
Even though we have talked about racism and orientalism I have a hard time believing that the orientalist operas are racist. Looking at Carmen I didn't feel like they were being racist. They did use the idea of making other cultures the "others" but not in a way that they were calling the Spanish culture inferior. The scene I found most interesting was when the Gypsies came out of the cigar factory and were acting all sexy, it made me think of the reactions that the people in France would have had if it were a bunch of French women out there acting like that.
After our discussion on Oreientalism in class, I was able to see how the play is used as an example of orientalism from the scene at the beginning of the play where the women come out of the factory smoking cigars. These women were looked down upon and the European upper class did not want to propose that things like this occured anywhere in their "elegant" country during that time period. I found the scene where Don Jose stabbed Carmen to be most interesting. It was hard for me to understand why he would stab someone he is suppose to "love" so much. And to touch on our discussion of "racism", i dont think that was a theme within the play. It was only one person's interpretation. I believe the racial undertone brought up by the negative depiction of gypsys was in the play due to their part and wasn't put in the opera to show that there was racism going on outside of the play.
Daniel Reisz Period 6
Discussing Orietalism and its uses in Opera have been interesting, I find it interesting how the writer of scripts such as Carmen were forced to hid there actual meanings behind their stories by placing them in far off lands and making them some what racist. I enjoyed the movie of Carmen a lot and thought it had an excellent cast and I enjoyed the setting and pirate type of theme given to it by orientalism.
Trisha Hancock
Period 2
Overall i found Carmen to be very interesting, and entertaining. I liked it becasue I recongized some of the sounds, and the story line was interesting. For me it's hard to believe people thought the play was racist, I could see the stereotypes with the gypsies. The scene that I rhink of is when Carmen is waiting for Jose and then tries to seduce him by getting on the table and dancing for him, then having him come with her to the mountains. This scene showed some of the sterotypes that the play has.
Tanner Low Period 4
Carmen is a very good example of Orientalism, one because it is written by a Frenchmen but set in Spain, and also it was obvious that the writing and music took some liberties on Spanish culture, and added some flair to it. It's just like what Hollywood does with real stories, they say in the beginning of the movie that this is "based on a true story" but they spice it up and add things that make it so people will watch it. In the case of Carmen, some of the stuff was made up not only to make it more interesting but also because Spanish culture was very unknown at the time Carmen was written. The play could have just as easily been written and set in a French city, with French gypsies. The scene in the bar with first the gypsies then the bull fighters and then the smugglers. It's not like those things didn't happen in France it's just that the original audience was French and it casts a bad light on their country, so they set it in Spain to make it acceptable.
Joel Maltos
Period 4
I got really into the discussion about Orietalism in class. But, while I watched the play I did not feel there was as much Orietalism as I thought it was going to consist of. I almost didn't view the opera as racist at all. I saw in early seens that Don did not want to fall in love with Carmen because of what she was. So that shows that gyspy's are looked down upon. Also, the scene in the bar, I felt was the only scene that was mildly racist. Mostly because it focused on gypsys only being good at dancing. Otherwise I felt this was an excellent opera music wise.
The one scene that pops out most in my mind is the scene of when they're at the smuggling mountain place. The way that the stereo types shine. the men are loud, bold, abusive (in a general sense) and controlling. The women are proud, weak, and used while being controlling in their own way. The story fits the scenery, but the feel of it all seems out of place, and in the wrong type of area.
Katie Hodgson
Per2
Overall i really liked carmen because i actually recognized some of the songs from it which was cool. Carmen was stereotyping gypsies in being sneaky and untrustful. The scene i found most interesting was the part when carmen and all of them were on the mountain trying to smuggle the weapons past the guards. Because its like at that point everyone is drawn together by fate. I wish i could have seen the end of the opera to find out what happened at the end of it
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